Orchestral Positioning: Reverb in practice

Okay, so you have an idea of how your reverb works, you know where everything goes and you’re eager to show the little virtual players inside your computer to their seats in your custom made software concert hall. Great! So let’s move on to making this happen within your DAW of choice.

Single reverb buss


Send reverb in REAPER

The easiest way of setting up an orchestral reverb is using a single reverb plugin as a send effect. This will let you put all sections of the orchestra in a single coherent space, and you can adjust their front-to-back placement by simply changing the send levels. The more reverb you add to a section, the farther back it will appear to be, and vice versa. Just like in the example with you and your friend in the big room. Even if this method isn’t 100% optimal, for reasons discussed below, I really think you should try it first. Don’t attempt anything more clever before you’ve explored the possibilities of using a single send reverb.

Why? Because it’s a straightforward solution that will get you a long way. It’s easy to manage, its resource footprint is as small as it gets, and it can sound great provided you have a good reverb and manage to set it up so that it works with all instruments. That’s the main part of the work right there: dialling in a reverb that sounds good on all instruments, both melodic and percussive. After that, all you have to do is apply it in suitable amounts on the different sections and boom, done.

I say “dialling in” because I’m not an advocate of using presets for anything more than as starting points. Most plugins don’t have presets that are intended to be used in real-life scenarios anyway, they’re just there to showcase the features and capabilities of the plugin. So do yourself a favor and make it a habit of always exploring reverbs (and other plugins!) beyond what the presets offer.

If you give this a try, you will notice that when you add a reverb send to a track, it will get slightly louder. This is to be expected as the original dry signal is now doubled with a wet version of itself. Once you have found the right balance between wet and dry, just knock the channel volume back a couple of dB to counter for this if necessary.

The magic behind the Predelay parameter

Using a single reverb buss will always sound a bit flat (in terms of Z-depth that is, not pitch) because all instruments share the same predelay times and amount of early reflections.

Some people claim that instruments in the back should have a longer predelay time than those in front. At a glance this appears to make sense as it takes longer for the sound in the back to travel to the listener’s ears. But if you think about it, it should actually be the other way around. For example, the first seat violin is in the very front of the orchestra and you will hear its direct sound a split second before the reverberations from the surrounding hall kick in. In other words, a distinct predelay. On the other hand, the crack of a snare drum in the back will have become so diffused and mixed with the hall reverberations by the time it reaches your ears that you can’t actually hear any “dry” sound. In other words, no predelay.

Setting up varying predelay times for the different sections is easy if you’re using multiple reverb busses (see below). If you’re using just a single send reverb you might still be able to do it if your DAW lets you route signals freely. Consult the manual if you’re unsure whether it does. I can’t speak for other hosts, but here’s what I’d do in REAPER, which has very flexible routing.

First of all, make sure the reverb is set to zero predelay. Then create two new tracks. Insert a basic delay plugin on each track (just make sure that it’s a stereo delay). Set both delays to 100% wet, 0% dry, and set the first one to, say, 40ms delay time. Set the second to 20ms. Make sure feedback and other setting are disabled on the delays so you’re getting just the clean signal, only delayed slightly. Disable the master sends on the delay busses so the delays are not fed to the master output, then route both tracks to the reverb, 100% wet. Finally, send the front instruments to the first predelay track, the middle instruments to the second, and the back instruments directly to the reverb. Voila — one reverb, three different predelays.

Here’s the hitch though: this is all a compromise. Even with differing predelay times, all sections will still have the same balance between early/late reflections. You will either have to live with that or consider using…

Multiple reverb busses


Multiple send reverbs

Optimally you should you use several reverb busses using the same basic reverb sound but with subtly different settings to mimic the way sound waves behave coming from varying distances. I normally use three — front, mid and back — plus a room ambience for various percussion that I want separate from the hall reverb. Here’s a rough guide to how it’s set up and what’s routed where:

Settings: Long(ish) predelay, rich in early reflections, slow attack
Instruments: Strings, harp

Settings: Medium predelay, less pronounced early reflections, medium attack
Instruments: Woodwinds, horns

Settings: No predelay, no early reflections, fast attack, less pronounced highs
Instruments: Trumpets, trombones, tuba, percussion, choir

The above is of course only 100% applicable to my personal setup.

Mixing multiple sample libraries



Setting depths with reverb busses and levels usually works fine on samples that have a natural ambience, but less so on close-mic’d stuff. A dry trumpet with a hall reverb on it doesn’t really sound like a trumpet playing in a hall. It just sounds like… well, a dry trumpet with a hall reverb on it. It doesn’t have that characteristic roominess you hear when listening to a real instrument that is played some distance away. It just floats ambigiously somewhere out there, a dry signal mixed with a wet one.

If you are mixing samples from different libraries and you find that distances are all over the place, and you can’t seem to fix it with only different reverb busses and levels, there’s a very cool freeware plugin called Proximity that might come in handy. Proximity lets you adjust the perceived distance of a recording using various psychoacoustic models, and it can make a close signal sound further away and vice versa.

You can use Proximity as an insert effect if there’s only a few instruments that need tweaking. For adjusting the z-depth of entire sections or instrument families, it’s much easier creating a submix of the tracks you want and adding an instance of Proximity for each of them.

The more the mushier

Never ever use different reverbs as inserts on section channels! If your reverb has presets called things like “Big Strings” or “Percussion Room” or “Brass Hall”, it might be tempting to use these on the respective sections. This is a bad idea for many reasons. First of all, it is almost guaranteed to sound like crap. Those presets aren’t meant to work together and will clash, turning your composition into a mess with no sense of spatial coherence. Secondly, it’s not realistic at all. When was the last time you saw an orchestra performing a piece with the brass in one hall and the strings in another? Thirdly, good reverbs can be fairly processor-heavy and having more instances than you actually need is a complete waste of CPU cycles in case you’re on a more modest machine.

That said, there are of course situations when you might want to use a completely different reverb for one or a few instruments in a mix. Non-typical orchestral percussion, or small percussion loops, are usually best kept separate from the rest of the orchestra. A repeating shaker loop drenched in hall reverb will become a continuous wash of background noise that might drown out the nuances of other instruments and distract the listener. Therefore it’s usually best to put stuff like that in front of everything else, using a much smaller reverb. It’s not realistic, no, but listen to a few action movie soundtracks and you’ll find that it’s common enough not to raise any eyebrows.

Next: Orchestral Positioning: Reverb and realism

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18 Responses to Orchestral Positioning: Reverb in practice

  1. Pingback: Orchestral template rundown |

  2. KaRPiN says:

    Thanks for your article: Orchestral Positioning: Reverb in practice. It has been really really useful for me. I have translated it into Spanish. Hope this is not a problem for you.


  3. KaRPiN says:

    One Response to Orchestral Positioning: Reverb in practice. This is the best article I have ever read about this subject; It is really interesting and comprehensive. Therefore I translated it into Spanish for people who don’t understand English at all -> http://www.hispasonic.com/foros/posicionamiento-orquestal-reverberacion-puesta-practi/496671
    I Hope this is not a problem for you. Obviously, my translation is also linked to your webpage and includes all the credit and links to your music in Soundcloud too. Thanks for your effort and sharing your knowledge.
    Is it possible to have a look to your reaper template file? I also use reaper, and i found a little difficult to understand the part of the article where u talk about the routing with your 3 reverb tracks. Or if you want I can send you my reaper template file.
    Many thanks for considering my request.

  4. Mattias says:

    KaRPin: No problem at all with the translation, in fact I’m grateful that you did it! I’m only bilingual (Swedish and English) so to reach an audience beyond that I’ll have to rely on the efforts of others. So thanks for that!

    As for the my REAPER template file, I’m not sure it would make things a whole lot clearer as it’s kind of convoluted. I could however, if you want, set up a more basic project file with the three reverb buses in place and routed to a handful of different tracks.

  5. Erik Abbink says:

    Hi Matthias,

    Thank you for this post, it’s well explained, but I am new to this. I have set up the multiple reverb busses and it’s all working well, but I am a bit confused about the different terminology used for my reverb plugin.

    For example, for the “Front” of the orchestra, you suggest a longish pre-delay (I have used 40ms), rich in early reflections (I used 100% size), but where do I make the change for “slow attack”, as you describe in the article?

    Here’s a picture of my plugin REVerence:

    Thank you so much for your help, I appreciate it!


    • Mattias says:

      Hi Erik! Actually, not all reverbs have an attack parameter, maybe the article should be edited to clarify that. Thanks for the heads up!

  6. Erik Abbink says:

    Thanks for letting me know, much appreciated!


  7. Samuel Lam says:

    Thanks for the detailed explanation!
    I understand the pre-delay part, but I just wanna have some more explanations about early reflection.
    If pre-delay give us the information about the distance of the object, what is the role of early reflection?
    How is the amount of early reflection affect the distance and position of the sound?

  8. Hey Mattias!

    Thank you for this article. Do you normally send the GROUP tracks to the reverb channels? Or the individual instruments? Also, do you use pre or post-fader?

    E.g.: Having a “send” on Horns I+III, II+IV, Trumpets, etc. OR Having a send to the reverb on the “Brass” group track?

    Hopefully this question makes sense! Thank you for writing this!

  9. kenrick says:

    Hey am from Jamaica and I think this is a great article..I have seen this concept in practice but somehow never tried it.

  10. Jacopo says:

    Thank you very much for your work, i’m reading all of yours articles and found them super interesting. Let me ask you something about early reflections, because what you say sounds a little strange to me. Why should i add early reflection in the front instrument? It’s not logical to say that they are more far from the walls then the back instrument? And by effecting the amount of early reflections aren’t you effecting the room size perception for different groups of instrument? Thank you in advance and sorry for my english. Really appreciate what you did!

    • Mattias says:

      Since the back instruments are further away than the front ones, their sound takes longer to reach your ears. Which means that the sound has become blended with the full reverberations of the space once you hear it, and the early reflections are less pronounced or even inaudible.

      • Mizuki says:

        Also, I am really not sure what I am advancing here, so that’s why I am asking but,I think the pre-delay should be proportional to the size of the room in some way. I mean, if the room is bigger, wouldn’t that mean it takes longer for the sound of a close instrument to hit a wall and reverberate to you?

  11. Tim de Man says:

    Hi Mattias,

    Thanks so much for this article. Trying to make a coherent soundscape with VSL instruments has proven to be quite the challenge, because it often sounds like (as you’ve said) a dry instrument with reverb plastered on. These tips (three “rows” on the stage with corresponding reverb settings) and Proximity to give the dry signal a sense of place have provided me with the missing link. It makes so much sense too.

    Thanks again.

    Greetings from the Netherlands,

    Tim de Man
    YouTube.com/timdeman (game covers and original work)

  12. Good morning, Matthias!

    Thank you for your reverb write up. It’s been a huge help not only to myself, but my private composition students!

    Quick question, though — how do you handle reverb routing? In other words, if the individual instruments are being sent to the reverbs, but the instruments’ output are to a group (e.g. Strings Bus, Brass bus, etc.) how do you handle routing of the reverbs? Do you place the output of the reverbs back to the same group busses as the instruments? This would then create any EQ or adjustments on the group bus to also affect the reverb. Or simply, do you have the reverbs going to the Mix Bus / Stereo Out to avoid any group adjustments to also impact the reverb?

    Thank you for your time! I hope you have a great rest of your weekend.


  13. Pingback: Unlocking the Secrets: How Violin is Played. - Violin Solution

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